In a private conference room, Baron Vladimir Harkonnen demands that Thufir Hawat explain why Hawat urged him to warn Rabban about Arrakis and what Arrakis has to do with Salusa Secundus. Hawat, inwardly disgusted by the Baron but outwardly controlled, insists that Salusa Secundus is not merely a prison planet; its lethal conditions are the hidden source of the Emperor’s Sardaukar.

Hawat argues that the Emperor turned against Duke Leto because Atreides commanders Gurney Halleck and Duncan Idaho had trained a small force nearly equal to the Sardaukar. Hawat then connects this to Arrakis: the Fremen, hardened by desert life, could provide the same kind of brutal survival base that Salusa Secundus provides for the Emperor.

The Baron first dismisses the Fremen as nearly destroyed by Rabban and the Sardaukar, but Hawat uses casualty figures, troop losses, transport records, and Duncan Idaho’s sietch report to show that the Fremen population may number at least ten million. Hawat concludes that Harkonnen oppression has not broken the Fremen but has culled the weak and strengthened the survivors, making Arrakis potentially another Salusa Secundus.

Hawat explains how such oppressed people might be recruited in small groups, isolated, trained, and taught to see themselves as an elite produced by their harsh world. The Baron begins to understand the possibility, then remembers that years earlier he mentioned to Count Fenring the idea of making Arrakis like the Emperor’s prison planet. Hawat realizes that this remark likely caused Imperial spies to investigate Arrakis, increasing the danger that the Emperor will see what Arrakis can produce.

Hawat warns that the Baron must either exterminate the Fremen or distance himself from Rabban’s cruelty. Hawat advises the Baron to send Rabban no aid, demand increasing spice quotas, and let Rabban intensify oppression while the Baron appears uninvolved. When production collapses, the Baron can remove Rabban; Hawat and the Baron then merge this plan with the Baron’s intention to send Feyd-Rautha as a savior figure to win Arrakis.

After being dismissed, Hawat remains troubled by unknown factors: the Fremen religious leader Muad’Dib, Gurney Halleck’s reports from the smugglers, and battle tactics that resemble Halleck, Duncan Idaho, and Hawat himself. Hawat wonders whether Idaho survived, but he does not imagine Paul survived, because he believes the Baron’s account that Jessica betrayed the Atreides. Hawat compares Jessica’s supposed hatred to his own hatred of the Baron and wonders whether his revenge will be as complete.